UK flag without Scotland?

Discussions on flags used in Europe.
User avatar
PaulJames
Member
Posts: 220
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 15:08
Location: Wales, United Kingdom

Re: UK flag without Scotland?

Postby PaulJames » 29 Nov 2013 08:15

Leonardo Piccioni wrote:It's the problem of selectively decomposing the Union Jack. Is UK suddenly claiming France or Greece on its flag? No.

That's why you can't selectively, arbitrarily, decompose the flag. It consists of three two-colour entities, which should always be added or removed as a whole: the red-and-white of England, blue-and-white of Scotland and red-and-white of Ireland.

Meiriongwril was right that, in my last flag, the yellow cross should be as wide as, or wider than, the English fimbriation, so here it is a bit wider:-

ukewni5bs.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
PaulJames
Member
Posts: 220
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 15:08
Location: Wales, United Kingdom

Re: UK flag without Scotland?

Postby PaulJames » 29 Nov 2013 23:08

Following on from an earlier post, here's a better rendition of the Royal Arms with Wales in place of Scotland (and with leeks instead of daffodils :) ):

uk no scotland arms.png

(Created from images by Sodacan on Wikimedia Commons, and licensed under the Creative Commons
Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported, 2.5 Generic, 2.0 Generic and 1.0 Generic license.)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
PaulJames
Member
Posts: 220
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 15:08
Location: Wales, United Kingdom

Re: UK flag without Scotland?

Postby PaulJames » 01 Dec 2013 15:40

Another variation on previous themes:

ukewni alts1.png


Or, if that's too much Wales and NI:

ukewni alts2.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Sammy
Member
Posts: 257
Joined: 26 Apr 2012 20:47
Location: Londonderry. (N.I) United Kingdom

Re: UK flag without Scotland?

Postby Sammy » 01 Dec 2013 22:04

Not too sure if the NI Assembly logo really works that well?

User avatar
PaulJames
Member
Posts: 220
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 15:08
Location: Wales, United Kingdom

Re: UK flag without Scotland?

Postby PaulJames » 02 Dec 2013 08:32

Sammy wrote:Not too sure if the NI Assembly logo really works that well?

I think it looks good. I went for that because it fills the rectangular space well, as does the Welsh dragon, whereas a single flax flower or the red hand of Ulster doesn't. Of course, it doesn't have to be precisely the same as the Assembly logo, but that's the image I could lay my hands on :).

I did come up with something much more radical which uses a single flax flower, but I can't imagine people would ever accept it. In this increasingly multi-faith and non-faith country, it seemed appropriate to dispense with the Christian crosses altogether:-

ukewni flowers3.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Sammy
Member
Posts: 257
Joined: 26 Apr 2012 20:47
Location: Londonderry. (N.I) United Kingdom

Re: UK flag without Scotland?

Postby Sammy » 04 Dec 2013 19:22

At first I didn't like that design, however it has grown on me a little.
In this increasingly multi-faith and non-faith country, it seemed appropriate to dispense with the Christian crosses

While I agree with you on the way society is going, I don't think symbols like crosses in flags (particularly St Georges Cross) has really been effected too much by it. With perhaps the exception of NI sub national flags such as St Andrew and St Georges Crosses and the Welsh Dragon have become more popular than the Union Flag. The point is St Georges Cross has become increasingly popular among English people despite the fact that we live in non faith or multi faith society. So while I am not against removing the crosses from the flag, I don't think it should be done for faith or non faith reasons, but rather because it fits the design better.

User avatar
Sammy
Member
Posts: 257
Joined: 26 Apr 2012 20:47
Location: Londonderry. (N.I) United Kingdom

Re: UK flag without Scotland?

Postby Sammy » 04 Dec 2013 19:26

http://survey.constantcontact.com/surve ... xz/results
results of a Flag Institute survey on this topic makes some interesting reading

User avatar
PaulJames
Member
Posts: 220
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 15:08
Location: Wales, United Kingdom

Re: UK flag without Scotland?

Postby PaulJames » 06 Dec 2013 16:20

Sammy wrote:At first I didn't like that design, however it has grown on me a little.
In this increasingly multi-faith and non-faith country, it seemed appropriate to dispense with the Christian crosses

While I agree with you on the way society is going, I don't think symbols like crosses in flags (particularly St Georges Cross) has really been effected too much by it. With perhaps the exception of NI sub national flags such as St Andrew and St Georges Crosses and the Welsh Dragon have become more popular than the Union Flag. The point is St Georges Cross has become increasingly popular among English people despite the fact that we live in non faith or multi faith society. So while I am not against removing the crosses from the flag, I don't think it should be done for faith or non faith reasons, but rather because it fits the design better.

I actually think you're right, Sammy. In principle, the crosses ought to go, but even I, a lifelong non-nonsense atheist, can't get worked up about it. As national symbols, they have taken on an identity of their own quite separate from their religious origins. A bit like Christmas for most of us, really :)

jmc2
New Member
Posts: 1
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 17:02

Re: UK flag without Scotland?

Postby jmc2 » 23 Feb 2014 18:08

I was playing around with flag designs today - and, when I found this forum, was saddened to see that Meiriongwril/Leonardo Piccioni already beat me to my original design for a Union Flag without Scotland:

Image

I concede the point that St George's cross doesn't actually appear (there's no red-on-white) so went back to the drawing board. I couldn't get red-on-white on top of gold-on-black without it looking messy, but think this is a good compromise:

Image

Lastly - with heavy heart - I abandoned the classic shape entirely, and combined four crosses that aren't saltires. I went with the St George cross for England, the St David cross for Wales, the flag of Ulster for Northern Ireland, and the flag of Cornwall for Cornwall (I needed a fourth to do quarters, and the flag of Cornwall, rather neatly, features colours that were already in use).

Image

I quite like that one for a flag in general, but it just doesn't look like a Union Flag to me...

Stuart

User avatar
empiretocommonwealth
Member
Posts: 8
Joined: 05 Apr 2011 02:46
Location: Nottinghamshire, UK

Re: UK flag without Scotland?

Postby empiretocommonwealth » 10 Mar 2014 00:12

My idea shows the historic union through the Union flag - but with very strong amendments .....
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Return to “Europe”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests