Civil flags to the British Oversea Territories

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Leonardo Piccioni
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Civil flags to the British Oversea Territories

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 19 Jul 2012 15:09

On the discussion about a new Falkland Islands flag (see at: http://flagsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=7940#p7940), the forum user 26May1989 suggested if, along the British oversea territories in Europe, the other territories had a flag with Union Jack and one without it. Actually, three of them are Crown Dependencies, but they aren't so different from Oversea Territories.

I made a little selection of flags from British territories at Europe. The first flag is the state and civil flag, without Union Jack. The second is the civil ensign, with Union Jack. The state ensigns usually substitute the red background from civil ensigns by blue.

  • Jersey
    Image Image
  • Guernsey
    Image Image
  • Isle of Man
    Image Image
  • Gibraltar
    Image Image

I created this topic to discuss this proposal of two flags to dependency, one with and one without the Union Jack, and propose possible designs and alternatives.
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Re: Civil flags to the British Oversea Territories

Postby Sammy » 20 Jul 2012 21:30

Starting with perhaps the simplest territory to have an alternative flag, Anguilla is unique as it was independent for a very brief period of time. In which it used the three Dolphins flag which is a banner of the coat of arms which appears on the current flag. I think that using a banner of the coat of arms is perhaps the best solution for most (but not all) of the territories. Of course the Government and Civil ensigns for use at sea remain unchanged. Being the UK red(civil) and blue (Government) with the territories coat of arms in the fly.
I also thought about the 'Sovereign Bases of Akrotiri and Dhekelia.' This has no individual flag and is not an ordinary territory (if there is such a thing) but from what Wikipedia has told me are military bases which the United Kingdom retains sovereignty of as part of the treaty for independence for Cyprus. So unlike British Bases in Germany or Canada where they are there by permission of the local government these bases are sovereign British territory. Being military bases I am unsure if it has a civilian population if there is it is small and is most likely the families of the soldiers, sailors and airmen based there. It is clear that local civilians work there and that some land is rented to local farmers, but as far as I know they are all citizens of Cyprus and probably live outside the sovereign territory of the bases. Politics wise from what I have researched
"According to the Ministry of Defence,
Because the SBAs are primarily required as military bases and not ordinary dependent territories, the Administration reports to the Ministry of Defence in London. It has no formal connection with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office or the British High Commission in Nicosia, although there are close informal links with both offices on policy matters.[9]
The bases are administered by the Administrator of the Sovereign Base Areas, who is the Commander of British Forces Cyprus (from 2010 AVM Graham Stacey). The Administrator is officially appointed by the British monarch, on the advice of the Ministry of Defence. The Administrator has all the executive and legislative authority of a Governor of an overseas territory. A Chief Officer is appointed, and is responsible to the Administrator for the day-to-day running of the civil government. No elections are held in the Bases, although British citizens are normally entitled to vote in United Kingdom elections (as British Forces or overseas electors)." The economy is similar mostly being in supplying the military with the exception of small scale farming as I mentioned. Although unique the uses the Euro being the only area of British Sovereignty to do so.
Primarily being a military base I don't know what use they would have for a flag, but I designed one. It is based on the Military of Defence flag with a tricolour representing the three armed services but it has the badge of the old Cyprus colony in the middle or alternatively a map of Cyprus similar to the British Forces Falkland Islands flag. I didn't design an ensign as I don't think there would be to many Civil Ships and any Government ship is likely to be something to do with armed forces and so would use their appropriate ensign
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Leonardo Piccioni
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Re: Civil flags to the British Oversea Territories

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 21 Jul 2012 02:20

About Anguillan flag, I like it very much and I yet made a tribute to it in my blog.

About the flag to Akoitri and Dhekelia, I liked the idea, but the flag is too dark. You transgressed the heraldic "no colours over colours" rule at least three times in this flag. Maybe with a white central circle it'd look better.

I also like to record, to future discusion, the flag to Dhekelia Yacht Club (I don't know why they have one of these), sometimes misunderstood, including by flag scholars, as Akoitri and Dhekelia Sovereign Bases unofficial flag:

Image
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Re: Civil flags to the British Oversea Territories

Postby Sammy » 21 Jul 2012 17:50

I liked the idea, but the flag is too dark. You transgressed the heraldic "no colours over colours" rule at least three times in this flag. Maybe with a white central circle it'd look better.

Well in my personal opinion I wouldn't call Akoitri and Dhekelia as overseas territories even though they are 'Sovereign territory.' but rather an overseas base, which is possibly why they don't have a flag? But they are officially listed as territories so I think they should have a flag. As for the flag I thought of. Its really a cross between the Ministry of Defence and Joint Services Flag and the old Cyprus Colony flag(shown below. But I agree a white disk probably would be better, I like the Yacht Club flag (I didn't know there was a club) Something similar to that might be better.
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Sammy
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Re: Civil flags to the British Oversea Territories

Postby Sammy » 21 Jul 2012 18:00

As Alternatives based on the Yacht Club flag I used the two lions on green field in the Canton and the the Navy blue, Crimson and Sky Blue as is used on the Ministry of Defence flag reflecting their status as 'Sovereign Bases.' Also Alternativly I placed the lions in the Canto of a St George's Cross as is done with the Flags of Sark and Herm which are UK Dependencies. However I am going to move on as I think the 'ordinary' territories should take priority
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Leonardo Piccioni
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Re: Civil flags to the British Oversea Territories

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 22 Jul 2012 20:25

I like your last flag, but, in other hand, the St. George's cross is only used in dependencies very near mainland England, so I won't create "jurisprudence".

Since last night I was trying to mix the Ministry of Defense and Dhekelia Yacht Club and I gone with this three flags:

akoitri-e-dhekelia.png

The lion over ministry colors. By the way, I changed the "template" to "more British" lions.

akoitri-e-dhekelia1.png

It's more a surrealistic attempt, with the Yacht Club flag ripping the ministry flag. This blue is exactly the ratio between the top and bottom stripes' colors.

akoitri-e-dhekelia2.png

It's maybe my favorite. The inverse occurs now: the ministry colors ripping Yacht Club flag.
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Re: Civil flags to the British Oversea Territories

Postby Sammy » 23 Jul 2012 17:44

That's a fair point about the cross. I like the third one best but all of them are very good

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Re: Civil flags to the British Oversea Territories

Postby Sammy » 23 Jul 2012 18:13

2 flags here British Antarctic Territory which is simply a banner of the coat of arms, although the current flag is unique as it is a white ensign rather than a red or blue one. British Indian Ocean Territory flag I think is actually OK but if anything were to be done take away the Union Jack and move the crown and palm tree more centre.
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Leonardo Piccioni
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Re: Civil flags to the British Oversea Territories

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 23 Jul 2012 22:53

About British Antarctic Territory, I moved the waves to lower down.
territorio-antartico-britanico.png

After that, I realized that maybe a blue/white inversion would make the flag looks better. But, sometimes, it looks too much like Sammy's BIOT flag and some Falklands flags proposed in this forum.
territorio-antartico-britanico1.png

About BIOT (British Indian Ocean Territory) flag, I think it's better to discuss it in the future, because its native population (Chagossians or Îlois) was expelled from the island, and libel British administration in international courts. Not a good time to a new flag. By the way, they use this flag:
Image

Also, I'd like to show my proposal to Tristan da Cunha. It's older, but I never published it until now. It's basically its banner of arms.
tristao-da-cunha.png
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vexilo
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Re: Civil flags to the British Oversea Territories

Postby vexilo » 29 Jul 2012 15:15

I also toyed with an idea for Tristan da Cunha,

Tris.gif
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